It's so nice to finally have images to go along with the original dialogue.
Back in 2006 when the original Eureka Seven was ending its run, there were some major changes made to the ending of the series. Originally, there was a tragic ending in place, in which Eureka and Renton would be separated for the sake of saving the planet. However, the studio was incredibly impressed by the work of the seiyuu, especially that of Renton's Yuko Sanpei and Eureka's Kaori Nazuka, and so they decided to make the ending a happier one as a thank you for the hard work of the cast. That's how the infamously cheesy and d'awww-worthy ending of Eureka Seven, Wish Upon A Star, was conceived, and the original planned ending was scrapped. However, right before the airing of the sequel, Eureka Seven: Astral Ocean, Bones decided to get the tragic ending out of its vault and air it as an audio file (which had been recorded and performed many years earlier, though never animated) over recycled imagery from the original series. The special, titled New Order, was incredibly difficult to follow because of the lack of context in the imagery. That's why, after AO finished airing, New Order was re-released as a manga, which is now currently in the processes of being published.
Needless to say, this is one of those "alternate re-tellings" of the story, such as the manga, novels, and films were, but instead of starting everything over, the manga starts off somewhere in the last ten episodes of the anime, except that there is no travel to the Earth in this version. Instead, Eureka has discovered her purpose as a Coralian, which entails serving as a collector of information and memories. In order to stop Dewey and the Limit of Questions from being surpassed, she has to deliver this information, parts of her body and soul nicknamed "memory fragments", to the Scub. However, if she does deliver the fragments, she will cease to exist as a tangible being. Dreading the alternative, she sneaks off the Gekko in the middle of the night so as not to let Renton and the others stop her and tries to fulfill her duty on her own.
I really liked the portrayal of this in the manga; even without Nazuka's voice it's easy to tell how conflicted and pained she is about her decision and how helpless she feels about it. In her time on Earth, she's come to care for the planet and all the people she's met and she would rather sacrifice herself for them all than let them perish for her selfish wish to be with them. Even when she sees Renton by accident after he goes searching for her, she has a moment of hesitation in which she thinks about going to him but ultimately forces herself to walk away. It's a really sad scene, full of dramatic irony in that he turns around the next moment. The chapter in general focuses on the helplessness of it all from all sides; Eureka has no choice but to leave, Renton feels abandoned and betrayed that she would leave him and that he can't do anything to assuage her fears and pain, and Holland and the others see no other way than to let her make her own decision.
It's kind of interesting, actually, just how many parallels I can see with Ao's fate in the sequel, and I'm struck by the fact that perhaps New Order was a source of inspiration for that ending. However, Eureka is more burdened by guilt than her son ever was, and her decision is made just as much for atonement as it is for love.
In any case, I'm quite pleased with Miyama Hugin's work. The art is much cleaner than I thought it would be and far better than the style Katou Yuuichi used for the Astral Ocean manga. The context is much easier to understand than the audio version alone, and my only real problem with it is actually with myself and all the kanji I've yet to learn to read by sight. Just this one chapter took me a good couple of hours to understand through the use of my zillion page dictionary, though it wasn't nearly as bad as I feared it would be. More practice is in order, I suppose.
N.B.: For those of you waiting for a scanlated version, I'm happy to say that there is a group working on it and that I'll be contributing the last of my free time to help translate* the scans. For anyone who hasn't even heard of it but has watched the anime, I recommend you read it once it's out; I love the happy ending as much as the next person, but it never really fit with the psychological despair of the series in general. New Order animated would have been a shocking and heartbreaking ending, but a perfect one regardless. I will be covering the rest of the chapters one by one as I find the time to do so.
Here is the download link to my version of the chapter: Eureka Seven New Order, Volume 1, Chapter 1
Here is the download link to my version of the chapter: Eureka Seven New Order, Volume 1, Chapter 1
I've been looking forward reading this manga, could you please tell me the name of the group that is going to work on it?
ReplyDeleteThank you very much!
Daniel.
As far as I know, they don't have a name. However, I'm doing my own scanlation that will be out next week; the group version won't be worked on until after nAnO is scanlated.
DeleteWell then I'll be waiting for your scanlation :p
DeleteThank you very much,
Sincerely, Daniel.
Hi, Renton121 here! Perhaps we can discuss it on the E7 Ao forums but I have to disagree that a sad ending would better fit Eureka Seven. Its true that there were a lot of sad scenes. Renton hates his boring life, Eureka is having difficulty connecting with humans, the old digger betrays Renton, Holland beats the shit out of Renton every other episode, Talho is ignored in favor of Eureka, Renton leaves the gekko state, finds paradise, loses it, back to the gekkostate, but for each of those moments there was a corresponding redemptive moment.
ReplyDeleteFollowing the examples above, Renton finds excitement and love in the gekkostate, Eureka connects with Renton and becomes more human, the old digger's plan fails (although this isn't really a happy so much as neutral ending), Holland learns his place as protector of the couple, rather than as the chosen one, as such Holland pays more attention to Eureka and the gekkostate becomes a lot more friendly to Renton when he comes back and gets a kinda family.
Likewise the art and scenery is generally sunny and bright, which gives off an optimistic feeling. The optimism and redemption evident throughout the series is capped off by Renton and Eureka finally getting through every obstacle and form a relationship with a kiss. A sad ending would have completely derailed the previous pattern of sad things being overcome ultimately and happiness being the end result. In several ways the sad nature of Eureka Seven makes it perfect for a happy ending, particularly since the sad to happy had been ingrained as a pattern in the series already.
I don't dislike the happy ending at all. I've written about how the series is a metaphor on life and how it's about what maturity looks like to those of us on the brink of it: it's full of wonder and possibility. The thing is, that's the optimistic outlook. It's beautiful and has a gorgeous message about life, but there's also the fact that life doesn't always end well. Eureka Seven did use lots of optimism, but it was also a tragedy in the making, and that's why the sad ending would have been somewhat more poignant than the happy one. That doesn't mean Wish Upon A Star is bad (though it is over-the-top), it just feels like New Order would have been a better fit philosophically, though the optimism works very well regardless, and is a perfect counterpoint to the way AO plays out.
DeleteI never said you disliked happy endings. It didn't feel like a tragedy in the making to me for the reasons I outlined before. I also didn't think it fit philosophically. I agree there is a lot of sadness in it but didn't get the feeling that anything was insurmountable. If anything the whole series runs on "the power of love".
DeleteI have two reasons as to why I disagree. Firstly, Wish Upon A Star was so corny that it cheapened the potential impact of what a happy ending could do symbolically for the series. It didn't fail, but it was much harder to take seriously. Secondly, there is a reasoning for why a tragic ending fit better. Up until Wish Upon A Star, the series portrayed psychological issues very poignantly and more or less realistically. Even when Eureka and Renton were happy together, there were some underlying issues that would never go away. The guilt they both face at having killed people doesn't magically disappear when they fall in love; they were forever sentenced to carry that burden and atone. Then there's the fact that the world was always cruel to both Renton and Eureka. Renton lost his entire family except his grandfather, and even his adopted parents were ruthlessly killed in front of him. Being happy in a relationship would never make that grief to away, but that doesn't necessarily mean he SHOULDN'T be happy. Life is cruel and difficult, but you can't ever give up regardless of how painful the outcome is. This is why New Order is more in line. There is simply no way out, but Renton has to try his utmost to prevent Eureka from sacrificing herself. Even though he ultimately fails, that he tried his best and went as far as he possibly could to save her redeems his growth and gives him hope that even though life is screwed up, he has to struggle if he ever hopes to attain happiness, no matter what. This is what happens to Ao. He may have nothing left, but he's validated his own existence through his efforts. It's what growing up is really about in the context of the series as a whole; it's not a fairy tale. However, there are good things to be said about the optimistic outlook as well. As you've already stated, it's a different kind of hope that we're presented with, one in which things will be alright and happiness is achieved if one struggles enough. In all honesty both are just as good ideologies, but the problem with Eureka Seven's Wish Upon A Star is how much the sudden happily-ever-after ending came about and undercut some of that earlier philosophy. The cheesiness was pretty over the top too.
Deleteheh It was very corny. I probably like happy endings too much in that it was just the right level of happy ending for me.
ReplyDeleteThe grief of having killed someone certainly does not disappear just because they fell in love. Eureka in particular has to grapple with her actions of killing many innocent people because she was ordered to. Despite that, and I can't say I'm a psychologist, but I do not believe that the grief is insurmountable. Your use of "sentenced to carry that burden and atone," is a relevant metaphor for your point of view. In that point of view they are given a weight as a result of their actions, one that they can never put down (although make it lighter by atonement). Perhaps that is right too. The key difference between us then seems to be how it all ends.
Ao fully repaid his debt to his parents, and Eureka and Renton are in the Gekkostate's debt for keeping their hands as clean as possible in a messed up world. However in both cases Ao, and Eureka and Renton did not have a say in the matter. They did not choose to be born in the position they were. Moreover the talk of "debt," is entirely metaphorical. In that sense they may have a debt but they are under no obligation to pay it. Admittedly in E7 New Order and E7 Ao the protagonists had to, or else the world would literally end. In New Order though there is still Gonzi, who could have reported (and probably did in E7) for Eureka. Even if Gonzi isn't a Scub in New Order, all Eureka transfers is information. The scub could just as easily spit her back out, fully in tact, with her memories in her head and a copy of them in the Scub Coral. In that sense there is no reason life, in this case, has to end sadly. The struggle for happiness need not be futile though worthy endeavor, it can be both worthy and successful.
Though like you said, they are both equally valid ideologies. There is no real right or wrong answer, just what you prefer. Yeah the ending was sudden, like I said I probably like happy endings too much though I felt the two had earned their happy ending. If we talk of debt and Eureka had to be taken the least the Scub could do is spit her back whole.
Grief is certainly surmountable, but it nevertheless does affect people powerfully even beyond coming to terms with it. I'm actually the daughter of a psychologist, so... =p The thing about this particular kind of guilt has nothing to do with a metaphor though. Killing someone, particularly when you're otherwise a good person, can permanently damage your psyche, and when I say that they feel the need to atone, I mean that there is no possible way for them to ever stop feeling that guilt. Saving the world, falling in love; the fact that they've bloodied their hands will stay in their minds regardless. There's no such thing as paying back the debt for a life that you took, because, in Eureka's own words, "when people break, they can't be fixed." The best they can do is live with that knowledge, and that's painful in an of itself.
DeleteYou're wrong on this point though: Renton and Eureka owe nothing to Gekkostate other than the love they have for the people there (and that's not owed). There are certainly family ties and the Gekko served as a place to nurture them both, but it was simultaneously the cause of much of their suffering, particularly in the first half. This wasn't necessarily done on purpose, but they didn't have anything they needed to "pay back". What they did, they did because they cared about Gekkostate. There is no debt in what I'm trying to explain; guilt and debt are very different things in this context.
This is actually a philosophical point though. Think about what makes individuals: our experiences and memories are what define us and shape us. When Eureka gives up her memories, she is no longer an individual; if it were possible for the Scub to send her back, she would metaphorically have lost her identity and would no longer have been the girl Renton loved. It would have been the ending of the movie, more or less.
Its true that you can't simply unkill a person you killed, and as such they feel the need to atone. However you seemed to imply, so correct me if I'm wrong, that Renton's attempt though inevitable failure to get Eureka back is what redeems him. I do not believe that it is necessary for Eureka to be sacrificed to redeem either of them. If information can be transferred from Eureka to the Scub, it can be transferred back. I have a feeling though the creators of the manga fundamentally misunderstand what information is. Its not a physical object that once you transfer lose. Eureka could easily transfer information in her head without having to sacrifice it. That's why it also feels forced. There are clear alternatives and solutions, and yet the manga is ignoring them to take the saddest route possible.
DeleteAs for what makes an individual, at the end of the movie Eureka lost her memory. She became an empty book again. In this iteration Eureka can transfer information without necessarily losing her own memories. Its like the same way a computer can transfer information without that information being taken off the computer. The same why I can tell a friend about what I ate yesterday without necessarily forgetting what I ate. Then the Scubs will have a set of static memories from Eureka, but the moment the transfer is done Eureka will have formed new memories, and as such retained her individuality.
For the Gekkostate, Renton and Eureka would not have met if not for them, or have survived, but that said the Gekkostate was the source of a lot of their misery. I can agree that as such they don't really owe anything to the Gekkostate.
No, that's not what I mean. What redeems his maturity is not losing Eureka, but the act of doing everything he possibly can. Losing Eureka is simply an unfortunate fact of life, it cannot be helped, but that doesn't mean it's right to give up.
DeleteInformation is an abstract concept, there is no real definition for it. It's the same as asking what human consciousness is; we can't explain it, but it certainly exists. She's not transferring simple ideas, she's transferring the emotions and the implications of those memories as well. In this mythos, that's just the way it is; all stories have their rules, and the rule of New Order is that giving up her memories (which, for Eureka, are physical parts of her mind and body that she actually returns) requires Eureka to become reabsorbed by the Scub.
Yes, but in the movie version she didn't give up her memories the way she does in New Order. Her memories in that case are a "price" to make her wish of saving Renton's life come true. The rules of the film are different, and she is no longer the same person, though Renton resolves to stay with her regardless. In New Order, there's a different symbolism in that giving up her experiences is tantamount to dying. It's a different portrayal but not wrong in terms of consistency with the original mythos.
Ah sorry, guess I misinterpreted that. I still don't think Eureka has to be given up but that goes into my points below.
DeleteIts not that abstract, its not so well understood but it is a physical principle. I'm sure thats the rules, but that doesn't mean the rules make any sense. When the first memory was given up obviously nothing physical left her, and for something physical to leave her would be very odd and kinda dangerous. Not to mention the same information can be given without giving something physical up. What the Scub want is her personality as molded by her interactions with humans. With a sufficient amount of computational memory that is entirely possible without her having to literally give up her memory.
Your last paragraph is my main problem with this. It isn't that they are making Eureka give up her memories because thats the physically logical thing to do, they are doing it because its symbolically the most powerful. Thats fine when the symbols have a meaning, aka match up with reality, but this seperation is effectively needless. In my opinion its just pointless drama. E7 had drama but it was never pointless.
There is a physical consequence to her giving up her memories. In New Order, losing her memories minimizes her humanity and literally turns her into Scub. Like the version in the anime, her Coralian levels rise, but here, they cause her to ultimately become reabsorbed. In that sense, she's giving up her humanity in giving up her memories, thus it's a symbolic loss of identity.
DeleteAll drama is pointless to some extent. Why make the Limit of Questions happen in the first place? Dramatic purpose. Why make Eureka become less human in the anime? Dramatic purpose so that Renton will accept her Coralian side more openly. This series is actually not very logical in general; no story really is. If you want to pick apart narratives, you always can. This separation IS important symbolically with reality, that's my whole point. Life sucks, and you can't always get what you want. The important part is fighting with all you have to change that, even if in the end it's pointless. Sometimes you win, and sometimes you don't, but you can't let that stop you from trying. Eureka's sacrifice is necessary and unavoidable, but Renton has to try to be with her to the last moment regardless because he loves her.
Thats the thing. There shouldn't be a physical consequence. It makes no sense to tie her memory, information that can be easily reproduced without damaging the original copy (think of when people torrent files, the original file is not changed). Or like when you copy a classmate's notes. Also, what was she before her memories then? I mean I understand in the physics of the series she has to become more Coralian, but that doesn't make sense. This goes into your other point, the other physics of E7 were almost entirely made up. Trappars, Coralians changing physics, none of them utilized existing physics. This is just simple information transfer.
DeleteIt seems to me though like the "life sucks, you can't always get what you want," theme is entirely overdone in fiction. Easily most of fiction will choose some sort of bad ending, particularly in dramas, because of the idea that negative feelings have more "meaning,". To me happy endings without compromise have more meaning if not just because they are really rarely done in drama. There are a few, Mahou Sensei Negima comes to mind, but even most happy endings have a big "but," stuck in the middle of it. Eureka Seven in particular, to me, is ripe for an unqualified happy ending because the characters go through so much and, to a lesser extent, the imagery is very bright.
It also strikes me that we are coming at Eureka Seven wanting different things (as is often the case in fiction, two people rarely view the same thing the same way). As you can tell by my icon and username, in the series Renton felt like my projection, even more so that he is pursuing a relationship. So I guess I really want to see things work out. I can't speak for you but it seems like you are coming at it from a different angle such that you don't literally project yourself into one of the main characters.
Again, it's in the perspective of what information is. Before her memories, Eureka was not Eureka in the sense of her identity, just as all of us have to live and experience in order to become individuals. It's nothing like "file downloading", she's giving up her actual self, and transferring is a word I chose to use in the translation because there's no real better alternative. I suppose you could say she's GIVING her memories away, but in doing so she's no longer in possession of them because she's so interconnected with the Scub. That's just the way it is.
DeleteOverdone, but perfectly suited for Eureka Seven, which goes out of its way to show it. Eureka Seven isn't a novel story in the least, it's an aggregate of the many references and stories that came before it, but told incredibly well and differently enough that its impact is on another level. For all intents and purposes, we're watching a darker, futuristic, and more "realistic" (in terms of character development) version of Romeo and Juliet as a basis. Happy endings are everywhere are far too overdone, as far as I'm personally concerned, and life just isn't about happy endings. Eureka Seven went to huge lengths to show that its story was close to basic human truths, and having your cake and eating it too is always rare.
Not at all. You've forgotten that I empathize incredibly closely to Eureka, so much that she's my role model. I see myself in her in so many facets, though I could never hope to be as mentally strong as her. I don't want her to die, but the story feels very unnatural when she doesn't, for dramatic and narrative reasons, as well as thematic ones. Believe me that I relate to her so much that when her daughter died and Ao was taken from her in the AO finale, I cried for a month every time I thought about it, and I still feel unbearable pain over it.
We're getting stuck on this point but that is not the way information works =P . The Scub want to know her feelings and experiences to better understand humans. People transfer our feelings and emotions on a daily basis without surrendering them. Its true that its a very imperfect process and that the Scub will need something more precise. However imagine if you could use words to perfectly describe how you feel at a moment, you would be no closer to physically giving up your feelings than you were before. And of course people are more than "file downloading" but information is information, whether its in bits in a computer or neurons in a brain. The latter is more meaningful, but its state can be no less transferred without harming the original than bits in a computer. Even as I were to wrack my brain for ways in which the Scub could take information and damage the original, I just can't find a realistic way in which that would happen. Its just unnecessary.
ReplyDeleteTrue life isn't perfect with always happy endings, but then again Eureka Seven has plenty of hard dramatic moments in it. A happy ending does not negate those moments, though I do not think that is what you are trying to say. Since Eureka Seven does have a lot of sad moments, but ultimately the protagonists redeem themselves, it seems like a series ripe for a happy ending. This may not be entirely realistic. I highly doubt any robot is going to carve a heart on the moon. However even in real life there are plenty of moments in which a couple, which has a rocky beginning, ends up together. There are also plenty of times when they don't, or it later ends badly.
True, I forgot about that. My only other point is I think I put more emphasis on the relationship, thats what really made E7 for me. Ao didn't have the same punch since there wasn't really any romance. Nevertheless point taken, you definitely empathize closely with Eureka.
And I'll say it again: there is no real definition for what information is and how it really works. Don't get me started on physics and so on. xD I completely understand what you mean, but in this particular case, information is her feelings, her emotions. You'll see what I mean in the new chapter. She's basically going through Alzheimer's as a consequence of giving up her human feelings. It's not about being realistic; it's about being symbolic. Like a literature novel, you can't say that symbolism and metaphors are quantitative.
DeleteI agree in that the happy ending works for that reason, and like I said, I love WUAS too. It's just the PARTICULARS of WUAS, like the moon, that make it not quite work as a fitting ending, happy or otherwise. My next RRV covers this subject in depth, about catharsis and the redeeming of suffering through the happy conclusion to the first half. In that sense, a happy, but less over the top, ending would have been perfectly fine. I specifically prefer NO over WUAS, not so much NO over all happy endings, though I do still thing the sad ending is equally as poignant thematically.
Ah, in that case yes. I do love the relationship, but my main focus is on psychology and individual relationships, as well as how that influences the bonds between characters. Ao to me had a different impact, because it was about growing up in a different way than through love.
Hi, extremely belated response. I'm not so well-versed in the physics of it, I just know it from a Computer Science perspective. Strictly in the case of computers information is measured in bits, which is basically on or off, yes or no, and so forth. One could argue that this applies only to computers. So far though computers have been able to simulate anything that occurs in the universe (granted we have sufficient computing power) but its by no means proven that the comp sci definition of information is the end all be all. I'll allow E7 to have creative liscence in this case, even if I still don't like it.
ReplyDeleteTrue WUAS was way over the top. I didn't really mind it as I mentioned before, there are happy endings but there are few absolutely happy endings. That's just my preference though, by no means is it the only possible opinion on WUAS =P .
That last line struck me, "growing up in a different way,". I think that's a good way of putting the difference between the two series. I relate more to Renton since I'm the normal-wants-to-do-something-exicting rather than Ao's abnormal-just-wants-a-family.
squirrel, (also im pretty damn glad it was a happy ending rather than the sad, cause i would have disliked the anime if they showed the sad ending, but ended up loving it completely cause of the happy ending. sad ending would have been bullshit, what would have been the message, you can try as hard as you want but u'll still fail.) also thanks for the summary kairi
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